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Slayer Booth and Slayer One Group - SCAA 2014 Show Report, Road Reports
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MarkPrince
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Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 5,620
Location: Vancouver, BC
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: KvdW Speedster
Grinder: Versalab M3 Grinder
Vac Pot: A bit too many
Drip: Bonavita
Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Fri May 9, 2014, 1:52pm
Subject: Re: Slayer Booth and Slayer One Group - SCAA 2014 Show Report, Road Reports
 

shadowfax Said:

Mark, from your article:


I think that you should make clear that "pre-brew" isn't precisely "low pressure mode." That is to say, it should be referred to as "restricted flow rate mode". The pump on the Slayer 1 group operates at a constant speed during extraction regardless of whether you're in pre-brew or brew mode, providing relatively consistent pressure upstream of the gicleur and/or needle valve. The difference is the flow rate that is delivered to the group

Technically, in most all cases the practical upshot of this flow restriction is a lower normalized pressure, meaning that the restricted flow at the needle valve means that the pressure attained when water has saturated the space above the puck (and the puck itself), there is sufficient flow such that the pressure doesn't reach full pressure. But if you were to put a blind filter in (preventing any flow through the group), full pressure would be attained during pre-brew. The actual pressure that you attain during pre-brew depends on the flow resistance that the puck gives, all other things being equal. The more flow restriction the puck provides, the higher the pressure you see during "pre-brew" will be.

The important thing, though, is that the needle valve setting used in pre-brew controls the rate of the initial pressure ramp as well as the pressure that it peaks at. The ability to "shape" that pressure ramp is something that you don't really get from a machine with line pressure preinfusion (like a Synesso) or a gicleur chamber (like an E61 or a Nuova Simonelli Aurelia). This is the mechanism by which the Slayer lets you grind many notches finer than most other espresso machines. I think the distinction is worth clarifying.

Posted May 9, 2014 link


Thanks for clearing this up. It's hard sometimes to get the minute nuances of how a machine functions, while listening to a demo on a live trade show floor ;) I did my best from memory and the notes I wrote up soon after leaving Jason's booth.

Mark

 
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andys
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andys
Joined: 10 May 2003
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Posted Fri May 9, 2014, 7:24pm
Subject: Re: Slayer Booth and Slayer One Group - SCAA 2014 Show Report, Road Reports
 

shadowfax Said:

The important thing, though, is that the needle valve setting used in pre-brew controls the rate of the initial pressure ramp as well as the pressure that it peaks at. The ability to "shape" that pressure ramp is something that you don't really get from a machine with line pressure preinfusion (like a Synesso) or a gicleur chamber (like an E61 or a Nuova Simonelli Aurelia). This is the mechanism by which the Slayer lets you grind many notches finer than most other espresso machines. I think the distinction is worth clarifying.

Posted May 9, 2014 link

The Slayer and Synesso may produce a slow rampup using slightly different methodology. But it is certainly questionable whether this distinction makes a perceptible difference in the resulting shots. As Dennis said, other machines can be set up to do virtually the same thing as a Slayer.

 
-AndyS
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shadowfax
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shadowfax
Joined: 20 Jan 2005
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Posted Fri May 9, 2014, 9:14pm
Subject: Re: Slayer Booth and Slayer One Group - SCAA 2014 Show Report, Road Reports
 

andys Said:

other machines can be set up to do virtually the same thing as a Slayer.

Posted May 9, 2014 link

I agree 100%. I've modified 2 such machines to do very slow preinfusions (and more or less anything else I want, pressure-wise). I'm not sure that an unmodified Hydra is capable of as slow of an initial pressure ramp, but I'll be interested to find out.
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uscfroadie
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uscfroadie
Joined: 2 Aug 2008
Posts: 426
Location: San Antonio
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: GS/3 Strada MP, BDB; owned...
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Posted Thu May 15, 2014, 6:11am
Subject: Re: Slayer Booth and Slayer One Group - SCAA 2014 Show Report, Road Reports
 

shadowfax Said:

This is untrue for the 1-group. It has a pre-brew timer feature as standard. It's just a setting that you can turn on and off in the touchscreen UI, and if it's on, it's just a time (in seconds) for the machine to open water flow through the needle valve path only, before going to full brew.

Pre-brew timers are an extra on multi-group machines, not on the single group. On those machines, there is additional hardware involved in adding in timed pre-brew support.

Posted May 9, 2014 link

Nicholas/Mark,

So to be replying late - was out of town.

I was posting info from the information I was given by Slayer's sales person - Dylan Evans.  Seems like they should update their literature and info packs they send to prospective clients.


andys Said:

As Dennis said, other machines can be set up to do virtually the same thing as a Slayer.

Posted May 9, 2014 link

True.  I can do this on both my Breville Double Boiler and Strada-modified GS/3, though the wiggle room is tighter.
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