Posted Tue Jun 7, 2011, 7:32am Subject: Re: Can These Filters Change the World of Espresso? by Mark Prince
As Tim pointed out, I hadn't indicated extraction ratio. For completeness I will say that weighed output from my 20g dose was generally 30g to 35g, so my "normal" shot ranged from thicker normale to thinner ristretto.
I knew your general extraction from previous threads...but for those that aren't familiar with it, it's convenient having it here.
The LaMarzocco screen is flat and seems like it doesn't protude down as far as the E61 screen, allowing for larger doses. On my new machine (E61) I max out at 21g into the VST 18g basket and lock in cleanly.
Surprising you can fit that much in, though, as was mentioned earlier in the discussion by Andy, the "tuning" of the holes I presume is what makes that less than desirable (and thus your down-dose.) Maybe I should have bought the 15g baskets for my 16.5g doses. Oops.
You probably saw this already, but in case not - here is a link into our discussion on dosing for the 18g VST basket
Thanks, interesting thread I hadn't seen before (I haven't been lurking HB as much with several active discussions on CG :) ).
Also, you mentioned you'd bought a new machine, but I hadn't realized you'd sold the GS/3 in exchange for an HX. I'm somewhat stunned that a GS/3 owner would replace it (some of the toys on it are very cool...though I have the same doubts as you with working in small quarters with a lot of electronics...) Still, changing from a saturated DB to an E61 HX isn't something often seen....at all. And many would scoff at. Sadly, the only Legends I've had shots from were poorly maintained (re: I doubt it's been cleaned in weeks), and run by ingnorami counter staff so I have a poor mental image of them even though I know the hardware isn't the problem.
Though I'm curious in following your experience with it. Your mention of more clarity on the saturated makes me curious about saturated groups (I'm a huge fan of crystal clear flavors...though you're ALSO using a 68mm conical...thus so are you.)
Overall, I think you made me more a fan of my current machine than GS/3 lust was previously making me. And maybe settled the debate of me getting another (or upgraded) one in the future versus a GS/3 when the "dark times" of impractically repairable wear come :)
Posted Tue Jun 7, 2011, 8:04am Subject: Re: Can These Filters Change the World of Espresso? by Mark Prince
TheMadTamper Said:
Still, changing from a saturated DB to an E61 HX isn't something often seen....at all. And many would scoff at. Sadly, the only Legends I've had shots from were poorly maintained ...
You realize if I get arrested for climbing behind the counter at the shop with the Legends, tying up the counter staff, and thoroughly cleaning their machine and pulling shots while they wait, now, it's all YOUR fault, right? :)
Still, I'm kind of relieved you managed to quell my GS/3 envy almost all at once :) Though there are attributes about it which I'd still be fond of.
Posted Fri Jun 10, 2011, 10:43am Subject: Re: Can These Filters Change the World of Espresso? by Mark Prince
TheMadTamper Said:
You realize if I get arrested for climbing behind the counter at the shop with the Legends, tying up the counter staff, and thoroughly cleaning their machine and pulling shots while they wait, now, it's all YOUR fault, right? :)
Wouldn't it be easier just to plan a trip to Houston and come over to my place for some espresso fun? (As a bonus, we will treat you to some very fine Houston dining and entertainment)
mikeecskii Said:
i've been reading but cant figure out whether these will fit a 57mm pf.
Posted Wed Jun 15, 2011, 7:38pm Subject: Re: Can These Filters Change the World of Espresso? by Mark Prince
I'm really glad Mark reviewed the VST baskets. I decided to purchase one and I got my 15g basket today.
The differences between the VST and stock Rancilio baskets were quite noticeable. The shot from the VST basket didn't blond as fast. I also noticed that the extraction was evenly distributed between the two shot glasses. In the past, the extraction from the stock basket was always unevenly distributed between the glasses. The puck was also much smoother than I've seen before. And, there were no signs of channeling.
Of course, the taste is what matters. The shot from the VST basket seemed a little smoother than with the stock basket. I think that's expected due to reduction in channeling and less blonding.
I'm already very pleased with the VST basket. It was much easier to use than I was expecting, based on the comments I've read in other threads. Definitely worth the try!
Posted Thu Jun 16, 2011, 6:53am Subject: Re: Can These Filters Change the World of Espresso? by Mark Prince
My baskets arrived! I haven't had a chance to unpack them yet, and I certainly won't be using them for quite a while....I'm doing only milk drinks for summer, I don't want to try these until I get into shots again in Oct. or Nov. I'm curious, but I have to be patient! :)
JonR10 Said:
Wouldn't it be easier just to plan a trip to Houston and come over to my place for some espresso fun? (As a bonus, we will treat you to some very fine Houston dining and entertainment)
Sounds like a fun, caffeinated day....on the other hand, climbing over the counter would solve those dirty machines I have to look at... :P I can hear them screaming to be cleaned.... :)
I'm still a little frightened of having to up-dose my shots beyond my usual. Has anyone found any down-sides to severe under-dosing in these baskets beyond the usual soggy puck? I know Mark mentioned that headspace shouldn't be a problem. By "severe" I mean 15.5g (min) in the 18g basket.
dsblv Said:
The differences between the VST and stock Rancilio baskets were quite noticeable. The shot from the VST basket didn't blond as fast. I also noticed that the extraction was evenly distributed between the two shot glasses. In the past, the extraction from the stock basket was always unevenly distributed between the glasses.
Slower blonding is always good (and seems to be a common thread here, likely due to the finer grind required), though the uneven pour may be coincidence. I examined that issue for quite a while myself and based on the nature of the flow it's very unlikely the basket affects it unless there's something catastrophic going on. The problem is usually either the levelness of the machine, or, more likely the spouts themselves. EG. My Rancilio and generic E61 handles all have the pouring issue for me (on two machines, a Silvia and my Salvatore), and my two LM handles do it with the LM adjustable spouts, though it happens worse with one than the other. The adjustability helps but seems to be too inconsistent and I don't like how it diverts the crema. I changed to the "newer" LM open spouts (the trapezoidal shaped ones) and the problem went almost entirely away on the one, and is still present on the other but less so than anywhere else. That's with a variety of baskets.
Maybe your basket was so deformed that it was the cause of your spout flow issues, but personally I think spouts are the cause of spout flow issues most of the time :) They're not manufactured to VST basket tolerances...and that's one place where any deviation is a disaster for flow.
Since then I've switched mostly to bottomless for convenience but I still use spouts forsmall milk drinks (single capps, machiattos) as I prefer single shots there.
Haha -- what a typo! I meant 58mm pfs, but from what I've read of earlier posts it appears that they do. So, I'll reorder that canceled order from yesterday!
All best.
Keith
Do I like my coffee black? There are other colors?
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