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Can These Filters Change the World of Espresso? by Mark Prince
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MarkPrince
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Posted Sat Apr 30, 2011, 4:45pm
Subject: Re: Can These Filters Change the World of Espresso? by Mark Prince
 

I had some correspondence with an incredibly busy Vince Fedele this morning (he's at the SCAA and swamped with the attention these are getting). I went to bat for my fellow Canadians on shipping. Here's what Vince wrote:

There is a problem with USPS integration into (our) wordpress software and the designers who initially set it up are no longer available to use at the moment. As such, it is UPS only for international shipments.

HOWEVER for Canadians ordering, what I can offer is this: Place the order and pay the full amount (including UPS fees); in a note on the order form (or via email) request shipping via USPS (make sure you provide your order number!!! important!!!) and we will ship it via USPS Priority post and refund you the difference in shipping costs.


This workaround should give you cheaper shipping, but more importantly, avoid UPS's bullcrap fees and such at the door. I have a feeling that VST will remedy this soon on their forms. If anyone with good wordpress experience knows how to handle USPS / UPS stuff, I'm sure Vince would like to talk to you and work something out.

Also please note, quantities are extremely limited until at least June. There are no 14/15g baskets till then, and a very limited number of 17/18g and 21/22g baskets.

Mark

 
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Joel_B
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Posted Sat Apr 30, 2011, 5:11pm
Subject: Re: Can These Filters Change the World of Espresso? by Mark Prince
 

MarkPrince Said:

Vince also explained the taper in each hole cut is very integral to fluid dynamics. I actually can't recall too much about that discussion, but I do recall if it is a straight wall (ie, each hole has a straight, vertical surface, no taper) liquid flow will plug up.

Posted April 30, 2011 link

Interesting and makes sense.  By looking at a standard basket, the bottom side of the holes are really flared.  There's such a wide variety of tooling and processes, but it's very possible it involves q slight extrusion or perhaps a tooling setup that gives a dimpled hole.

MarkPrince Said:

I'd answer the last question in Joel's post by saying: the taste difference CAN be substantial. Plus as Andy pointed out, these baskets are designed for a longer use before failures. He showed me several examples of baskets that have failed under cafe use.

Posted April 30, 2011 link

Thanks for responding Mark. I have to say I'm a little surprised that the cup would change so much, but I was also surprised how much different a super jolly was from a m4, so what do I know?  Yes, in a cafe environment, the extended life certainly helps warrant the cost.
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andys
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Posted Sat Apr 30, 2011, 7:39pm
Subject: Re: Can These Filters Change the World of Espresso? by Mark Prince
 

Joel_B Said:

But I have to ask, is there really that much in the cup difference to warrant nearly 3 times the cost?

Posted April 30, 2011 link

Mark answered this quite definitively, but let me put it another way. The typical home espresso aficionado has probably invested $500-$5000 in an espresso machine, $300-$1500 in a grinder, and spends $500-$1500 a year on coffee. And you're worried about spending $25 on a filter? It's a hell of lot cheaper upgrade than a new grinder or espresso machine, and it might make more of an improvement.

kevlar Said:

Ok so if these baskets will fit an E61 grouphead but one of the design parameters being that with the correct dose in each basket it leaves a defined amount of space between the top of the puck and the dispersion screen specific to a La Marzocco machine. The problem then being with an E61 grouphead that the top of the puck would be too close to the dispersion screen.

Posted April 30, 2011 link

I guess what I posted above still wasn't clear. Not all E61 groups have the same dispersion screen clearance, but I believe they all can be made comparable to LM machines in this regard with the proper selection of gaskets or gasket spacers.

 
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Joel_B
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Posted Sat Apr 30, 2011, 8:34pm
Subject: Re: Can These Filters Change the World of Espresso? by Mark Prince
 

andys Said:

Mark answered this quite definitively, but let me put it another way. The typical home espresso aficionado has probably invested $500-$5000 in an espresso machine, $300-$1500 in a grinder, and spends $500-$1500 a year on coffee. And you're worried about spending $25 on a filter? It's a hell of lot cheaper upgrade than a new grinder or espresso machine, and it might make more of an improvement.

Posted April 30, 2011 link

LOL. :D  Ok, fair enough.  I guess I didn't phrase my question well; I was wary that despite the improved quality of the basket what does it truly equate to.  I was really wondering if there  IS a difference in the cup and at $25 what am I getting.  If I can't tell the difference I wouldn't spend the money. If I MIGHT notice a small difference I still probably wouldn't bother. but yes, thanks for the perspective.
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Posted Sat Apr 30, 2011, 8:46pm
Subject: Re: Can These Filters Change the World of Espresso? by Mark Prince
 

RapidCoffee Said:

Vince Fedele published an interesting article in the April-May issue of Barista Magazine (available online here, pp.74-84) that discusses the new baskets. He states that there are grind adjustments for the different baskets, "slightly more coarse for the 22g filter and slightly more fine for the 15g filter, with the 18g filter midway in between".

Posted April 29, 2011 link

Thanks, John for the link and the answer.  Hopefully I will get a chance to read the article on my computer that has Flash installed. It sounds like an interesting read.

Mark
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Posted Sat Apr 30, 2011, 11:41pm
Subject: Re: Can These Filters Change the World of Espresso? by Mark Prince
 

Click Here (www.coffeegeek.com)

From this photo, I suppose that the holes are all round.  Is that right?

As I had seen, the holes in those Italian filters are not.  But, what is the real things?

I am not going to say too fast, so I have to ask before.

 
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MarkPrince
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Posted Sat Apr 30, 2011, 11:47pm
Subject: Re: Can These Filters Change the World of Espresso? by Mark Prince
 

]

pstam Said:

Click Here (www.coffeegeek.com)

From this photo, I suppose that the holes are all round.  Is that right?

As I had seen, the holes in those Italian filters are not.  But, what is the real things?

I am not saying too fast, so I have to ask before.

Posted April 30, 2011 link

They're not round. That photo was defocused a bit to make a bit more of an impact image and blur the holes a bit - it still shows the reality of the holes all being uniform sizes.

Here's another pic less defocused.

Mark

MarkPrince: vstholes-25.jpg
(Click for larger image)

 
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JtothaR
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Posted Sat Apr 30, 2011, 11:57pm
Subject: Re: Can These Filters Change the World of Espresso? by Mark Prince
 

Awesome to see that Mark is on here late with us sometimes =)

I'm going to order a couple just to check it out probably, I need a new standard double basket anyway, and a new 18G couldn't hurt.

-James

 
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Bob_McBob
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Posted Sun May 1, 2011, 12:11am
Subject: Re: Can These Filters Change the World of Espresso? by Mark Prince
 

I ended up ordering one of the 18g baskets.  Not sure how much of a difference to expect, but it isn't a huge outlay.

 
Chris
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pstam
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Posted Sun May 1, 2011, 2:23am
Subject: Re: Can These Filters Change the World of Espresso? by Mark Prince
 

MarkPrince Said:

They're not round. That photo was defocused a bit to make a bit more of an impact image and blur the holes a bit - it still shows the reality of the holes all being uniform sizes.

Here's another pic less defocused.

Mark

Posted April 30, 2011 link

I cannot see your photo here.

As I see, the holes for Italians is like the drawing below, and all the holes are the same.
I don't really get what the VST improves.

pstam: holes_italy.gif
(Click for larger image)

 
Peter in Beijing
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I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
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