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Weight Based Grinding Becomes Reality: Baratza's New Thing (Exclusive)
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grindpullrepeat
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grindpullrepeat
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Posted Wed Apr 20, 2011, 1:47pm
Subject: Re: Weight Based Grinding Becomes Reality: Baratza's New Thing (Exclusive)
 

Hereís my main issue:

I have a pour-over station at my cafť, and I want to have three coffee options available for the customers.

I canít fill my hopper with any one coffee, since I constantly need to change the coffee Iím grinding. Wouldn't I just end up weighing the coffee separately anyway? It seems that needing to switch coffees annuls the benefits of this system, which only works well if the hopper is full.

Please correct me if I'm wrong or misunderstanding something, because I really like the idea!
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MarkPrince
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Joined: 19 Dec 2001
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Posted Wed Apr 20, 2011, 1:50pm
Subject: Re: Weight Based Grinding Becomes Reality: Baratza's New Thing (Exclusive)
 

You'd buy three grinders. Productivity would be up (extra steps eliminated), service faster, accurate results. That's the concept. 3 Varios (at vendor wholesale prices, which as a cafe owner you might be able to get) is still less than 1 Mahlkonig ProM, and definitely less than 1 Ditting K804 grinder.

Mark

 
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MarkPrince
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Posted Wed Apr 20, 2011, 1:52pm
Subject: Re: Weight Based Grinding Becomes Reality: Baratza's New Thing (Exclusive)
 

grindpullrepeat Said:

It seems that needing to switch coffees annuls the benefits of this system, which only works well if the hopper is full.

Posted April 20, 2011 link

I asked Kyle specifically about this "does it only work well if the hopper is full? How does it work when you're popcorning the last beans?"

He said I was thinking with a timer mentality. Weight based dosing control doesn't care if the hopper is full or down to the last two beans.

Mark

 
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KyleAnderson
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Posted Wed Apr 20, 2011, 2:44pm
Subject: Re: Weight Based Grinding Becomes Reality: Baratza's New Thing (Exclusive)
 

Mark has hit the point right on; the size of the Vario-E lends itself very well to multiple units (each tuned to a specific bean) in a shop offering unique bean choices to their customers. Especially for espresso, it is not practical to switch beans in the same grinder. I assume it is OK to grind multiple varieties of beans on the same grinder without adjustment when grinding for drip/press, though maybe not ideal. For lower volume and very special coffees, having a dedicated small  grinder with precise dosing can improve quality in the cup. Since the dosing is weight based, even if the hopper runs empty during grinding, the grinder will run until more beans are added and the desired weight is obtained in the grounds bin.
I hope this some light on the issue of dose obtained relative to how much beans are in the hopper.
Kyle
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IMAWriter
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Posted Wed Apr 20, 2011, 6:51pm
Subject: Re: Weight Based Grinding Becomes Reality: Baratza's New Thing (Exclusive)
 

jammin Said:

not to mention, the grinding speed changes with grind setting; so your grind better be on before you started changing the timer.  then when you change beans.. blah blah blah.

dosing by weight is far superior to dosing by time as far as accuracy is concerned.


if you're worried about pouring into the PF, get a dosing funnel from Orphan Espresso - they are good tool to have anyway.  If you're cheap - use a yogurt cup.

Personally - I think weighing before hand and dosing into PF with the Vario is the most practical solution.

~j

Posted April 19, 2011 link

Got here late...Just finished reading (I'm a BAD boy...lol) and was going to suggest the same thing. I have the stainless OE dosing funnel (originally purchased for my KyM manual grinder), and it would be a snap to just pour in the grind. Of course, I'd be tempted to do a little WDT'ing! LOL
Actually, not necessary with a Vario grind...pretty much the same with the Preciso.

I can see how this would (as mentioned by Mark P) be a real Godsend for cafe's, and those of us doing vac pot and such.

Still (saying this with all good intentions) my Vario's timer is just so cool, and accurate, that I don't know if I could handle improvement. LOL
Wish I could get to SCAA and face to face with my friends here and over on HB, but some unexpected home repair issues and other stuff has me momentarily unable to get away.

I really enjoyed my time at the SCAA in Hot-lanta a few years ago. Spent a bit of time with Kyle and Kyra. They are awesome folks.
I encourage y'all to go, sign-up for some classes, and drink LOTS of great 'spro and pour-over!!


Edit...where i slightly differ with "jammin" is that i am old school, and prefer having a 1/2 filled hopper when i grind. I believe the added pressure would make the scale even MORE accurate. Those with Preciso's (or planning to purchase one) could get the Essato attachment and be WAY ahead. Hmmm.

 
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Bob_McBob
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Bob_McBob
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Posted Thu Apr 21, 2011, 1:59am
Subject: Re: Weight Based Grinding Becomes Reality: Baratza's New Thing (Exclusive)
 

Baratza is continuing to innovate in the home grinder market.  What I would like to see offered with the Vario-E is a bin like the current portafilter holder, but designed to hold a portafilter basket in its arms.  Pop out basket, grind, pop in basket.  This is how I think most people will want to use it anyway.

It's unfortunate they won't be including the timed grinding feature in the Vario-E.  I would almost certainly trade in my Vario for a grinder that had both modes, if only to try out and evaluate the idea.  As it is, I am curious enough to potentially order one.  I am not particularly attached to the concept of timed grinding.  I find with any grinder, the amount of coffee ground out depends on how long it has sat unused.  My first shot after the purge is invariably different from the second shot a few minutes later.  I weigh every dose and often end up touching up the second shot.  I would be happy to eliminate manual dose weighing from my espresso preparation routine.

 
Chris
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ilcaffedio
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Posted Sat Apr 23, 2011, 9:42am
Subject: Re: Weight Based Grinding Becomes Reality: Baratza's New Thing (Exclusive)
 

Why would you want timed grinding when you can grind by mass (via weight)?  It's like being in the late '70s and buying a car with EFI: "I wish this still had a carburetor that I could use every once in a while.  Tweaking carb timing is just sooo fun!"*

*Disclaimer: the basis of my comparison ends there.  A lot of early EFI systems sucked; whereas conversely Baratza tends to get the electronics right, before going to market.
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ericphilly
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ericphilly
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Posted Sun Apr 24, 2011, 9:52am
Subject: Re: Weight Based Grinding Becomes Reality: Baratza's New Thing (Exclusive)
 

Mark,

Interesting review and article. I always weigh my beans before grinding with a Rocky doserless,
and this system works quite well for me. Here is my question: My Salter scale will not give a stable
reading while a microwave is running anywhere nearby - the numbers just jump around. Can you
test to see whether that is the case with this new unit? If so, this will have to be addressed before
it can be used in cafes or restaurants where microwaves may be in frequent use.

Eric
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KyleAnderson
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KyleAnderson
Joined: 15 Mar 2009
Posts: 33
Location: Bellevue
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Dalla Corte Mini
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Posted Sun Apr 24, 2011, 12:29pm
Subject: Re: Weight Based Grinding Becomes Reality: Baratza's New Thing (Exclusive)
 

Hi Eric,
We will be doing extensive testing of the Esatto and Vario-E in the next couple of weeks and we will make sure to test for EMI interferences. When we go for our CE certification, this kind of testing is an integral part of the process.
Thanks for bringing this concern up.
Regards,
Kyle
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al_bongo
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Posted Sun Apr 24, 2011, 10:16pm
Subject: Re: Weight Based Grinding Becomes Reality: Baratza's New Thing (Exclusive)
 

Interesting thread. As one of the apparently few who weigh and grind as necessary it will be interesting to see how the addition of scales to a grinder fairs.

From my perspective, in a domestic situation, I don't see inbuilt scales as much of an advantage. I still need a set of cheap Salter scales to sit my Chemex on to weigh my brew water. For my consumption needs I would be far more concerned about half a pound of coffee going stale sitting in a hopper when it could be kept fresh in an air tight bag.

Weighing and grinding just seems more sensible outwith a high volume commercial operation where you are going through pounds of coffee a day rather than a pound a week.
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