KevinK Senior Member Joined: 22 May 2005 Posts: 2 Location: Colorado Expertise: Professional
Posted Sun Feb 22, 2009, 6:05pm Subject: Re: Instant Convenience, Mermaids, Good Enough?, Professionally Speaking
Hi Mark,
Unlike you I never did get to visit a soluble coffee plant, but just reading about it in Sivetz's "Coffee Technology" made me want to steer clear. Clearly the typical ways of making instant coffee are all focused on yield rather than trying to capture aroma or flavor, and that was certainly not the case with the approach Starbucks took. It would be unfair of me to speculate further because the science behind what they were doing even way back then was beyond me, and doubtless with a state-of-the-art R & D department and 15 years of meteoric growth the sophistication of their manufacturing has improved exponentially.
The decision to switch to the fully auto machines is just one tiny nail in a very large coffin. What you have with Starbucks is a classic case of a product-driven company prostituted into a marketing-driven one, while all the while the employees were told (and probably still are) that uncompromising quality is the sole mission. However, I think it's equally worth mentioning that there are very few regional or local players, at least in my experience, who brew to consistent recipes, time every pot of drip coffee and every shot, have enforced freshness standards, or buy better coffee than Starbucks. The average degree of roast in the U.S. specialty world is also very similar to Starbucks, so in the end the consumer experience in these nominally groovier places often amounts to "Starbucks with piercings." I really miss The Coffee Connection, which was the last multi-store chain to offer moderately-roasted origin coffees properly brewed in enough locations to be convenient and shape some palates. I guess we still have Dunkin Donuts and the golden arches?
Posted Sun Feb 22, 2009, 6:54pm Subject: Re: Instant Convenience, Mermaids, Good Enough?, Professionally Speaking
On the subject of Sbux superautos, here in the UK at least, this did bring a degree of consistency that had all but disappeared toward the end of their traditional machine period when quality seemed to vary hugely from shot to shot. Unfortunately, the flavour of the coffee seemed to dininish at the same time to the point that one day I actually returned a relatively small 'bucket' of steamed milk to the person on the superauto with a genuine enquiry as to whether he had forgotten to add a shot of coffee. It simply tasted only of milk. He was great and added another double (I got the idea it had happened before), which, unfortunately, remained swamped by milk.
Given the superautos, the ever darker roasts and buckets of milk seemingly aimed at swamping the roast flavours, I'm not sure that Starbucks can do much more to harm their reputation. People can taste the difference between a high end 'speciality' coffee and mass produced versions from auperautos regardless of whether the beverage is based on 'real' coffee or 'coffee solids'. Interesting times .......
Posted Sun Feb 22, 2009, 7:09pm Subject: Re: Instant Convenience, Mermaids, Good Enough?, Professionally Speaking
CakeBoy Said:
On the subject of Sbux superautos, here in the UK at least, this did bring a degree of consistency that had all but disappeared toward the end of their traditional machine period
I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Marzocco Swift was designed with Starbucks in mind for that very purpose. Having tasted coffee from a Swift at Artigianos, my conclusion is that it's not as good as a good barista and good equipment, but it does the trick and is miles ahead of a superauto
MarkPrince Moderator Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 5,462 Location: Vancouver, BC Expertise: Professional
Espresso: KvdW Speedster Grinder: Compak K10 WBC Vac Pot: A bit too many Drip: Clive Coffee Drip Stand Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Sun Feb 22, 2009, 8:53pm Subject: Re: Instant Convenience, Mermaids, Good Enough?, Professionally Speaking
BrainInAJar Said:
I seem to recall reading somewhere that the Marzocco Swift was designed with Starbucks in mind for that very purpose. Having tasted coffee from a Swift at Artigianos, my conclusion is that it's not as good as a good barista and good equipment, but it does the trick and is miles ahead of a superauto
This is correct - the development of the Swift was greatly in part to Starbuck's plan towards more automation - and they could have done much worse (wait - they did) than go with the Swift and keep the La Marzoccos.
Posted Mon Feb 23, 2009, 12:50pm Subject: Re: Instant Convenience, Mermaids, Good Enough?, Professionally Speaking
MarkPrince Said:
Via Instant Brew by Starbucks gets a review in UK's The Guardian by a self-admitted (via description) commodity coffee drinker, and the review ain't pretty.
OvenRoasted Senior Member Joined: 26 Dec 2008 Posts: 220 Location: Southwest Expertise: I live coffee
Grinder: Compak k3 Yellow Woo! Drip: Bodum 8 Cup French Press Roaster: Behmor/Popper
Posted Mon Feb 23, 2009, 1:40pm Subject: Re: Instant Convenience, Mermaids, Good Enough?, Professionally Speaking
How about we describe how Instant Coffee is produced and see if you wanna drink it...
Howard Schultz told the Wall Street Journal that he has been secretly serving the instant coffee to guests in his home and no one has detected the difference, which could say more about Starbucks' brewed coffee or the politeness of Schultz' guests than it does about the instant coffee.
Is that for real?
Send Someone from Gimme or Ritual, i bet you they will know.
MiaTazza Senior Member Joined: 22 Nov 2008 Posts: 5 Location: Chicago Expertise: I live coffee
Posted Thu Feb 26, 2009, 12:18pm Subject: Re: Instant Convenience, Mermaids, Good Enough?, Professionally Speaking
After spending the weekend at Navy Pier hangin out and drinkin awesome espresso at the Coffee Fest trade show, I had the distinct pleasure of sampling this instant delicacy. The Italian Roast certainly had something smokey going on and there was a weird filmy texture thrown in for kicks.
It tried really hard to taste like a cup of Starbucks coffee. I guess it's sort of like the first time I heard someone order an Old Style Light, just when I thought Old Style couldn't get any worse...
Posted Mon Mar 9, 2009, 10:36am Subject: Re: Instant Convenience, Mermaids, Good Enough?, Professionally Speaking
Well I hate instant coffee, I tried VIA. While it is not "Fresh Brewed" I believe this one is good. As a matter of fact I think it may be better than what some of their employees do to the brewed coffe in the stores.
Posted Thu Mar 26, 2009, 10:30am Subject: Re: Instant Convenience, Mermaids, Good Enough?, Professionally Speaking
I have tried it and I would also say it is good enough. Clearly starbucks is relying more on middle of the road coffee more than ever (pike place). they still have a few that I would consider to be very good (casa cielo & sumatra for example)- it helps to check the date on the bag before buying.
For those of us who cannot function without a cup of joe each morning, better to have one or two of these stashed in a travel bag or at your desk in case you don't have something better available.
I definitely would not say it is very good, but it is almost good, and has not made me wish I did not drink it when pressed for time.
I think it is time to stop griping about starbucks- go somewhere else if you really hate it- no one is forcing you to buy it and they do provide a relatively good and consistent coffee product more often than not.
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