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Cafe Culture Downunder by George Sabados

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MarkPrince
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Posted Thu Jun 14, 2007, 12:51pm Subject: Re: Cafe Culture Downunder by George Sabados

And another thing to add to all the discussion - for those who haven't listened to the latest CG Podcast. As Luca explained, there are programs in place with the major espresso machine appliance sellers (Sunbeam - maybe others too?) that provide a voucher for Joe (or Jane) Consumer to go and get hands on training, gratis, on how to use their machine and how to understand the process that goes into making espresso. Just brilliant stuff. While George may not "get" what the third wavers are talking about over here, in some ways, I don't think he has to get it. There's a lot of things going on in the Australian coffee scene that make the third wave movement, in some cases, obsolete. I think it is true, from my observation perch about 10,000 kms away, that there isn't much identity in SOs and "talking up the coffee" in as many circles in Aussie coffee culture as many would like - consumers just want a good cuppa and in many cases, even in their own homes, that's what they're getting, because the bar is higher overall in that part of the world. What is there to gain or learn from this? Well, I don't think for a moment that coffee (espresso) is routinely perfect in Australia, and I doubt we'd find one Aussie who would claim it is. Just as there are many things seemingly going right in Australia, there's also many challenges and situations where things could be vastly improved - both on the consumer and commercial levels. But, there is a lot that (I think) Canadians and Americans could learn from closer study of these markets. The voucher program is brilliant, IMO, but perhaps not entirely feasible at this time over on these shores - you need a major player ready to step up and pay the funding, and they need sales to do so. In some cases, stores themselves are stepping up (Williams Sonoma with their group training sessions), but how good is it? I've heard it isn't very good at all (someone correct me if I'm wrong). I am hoping that the fellow who said, on his podcast, that he was taking over the cMembership program with the SCAA will take a more objective viewpoint at this article, and the resulting comments, instead of just blowing it off with a focus on George's jab at the Third Wave. Learn the Aussie's mistakes, but also their successes, especially when it comes to reach out programs with consumers - there's a lot of substance in what's been going on for some time now in that market and in New Zealand. Mark

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emily
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Posted Thu Jun 14, 2007, 3:13pm
Subject: Re: Cafe Culture Downunder by George Sabados

MarkPrince Said:

Em, always great to get your input. So many points made, and I like the counterpoints to a few of George's comments. The information about the govt controlled (instituted? mandated? encouraged?) certification system was very enlightening.

Posted June 14, 2007 link

Mark you can read the unit guides here HERE! I'd call them Govt. regulated, they're reviewed every 3 years which I've just finished for this year! They're optional of course, but value add to the overall experience and quality of the students we have.

One is called Prepare and Serve Espresso Coffee which is skills based, and the other is Plan and Monitor espresso coffee which is supervisory and much more knowledge based.

THey're good from my POV, as they allow us to present a framework to students in a hospitality environment who would otherwise only get 3 or 4 hrs on an espresso machine as part of their bar training. We teach Prepare and serve to Hospitality management students, to Chef's, cookery students, to hotel management, cafe operations and some event management students - so basically when they leave the college they have a good idea of what a decent coffee is... perhaps this is proven somewhat by Alan's experience at the Westin. Our students who go out into the hospitality and hotel world, have an idea, and so rather than a cup of filter, hotel patrons are getting a decent espresso coffee, which in Australia is what they want!

Tex
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Posted Thu Jun 14, 2007, 4:17pm Subject: Re: Cafe Culture Downunder by George Sabados

Great story but something's wrong...? I know, the picture should look like this;

Tex -- http://www.tinyurl.com/mb4uj - My coffee pages. http://www.tinyurl.com/2tnv87 - My 'Guidelines For Newbies' page. http://www.tinyurl.com/2cr3e2 - I sell things for friends & neighbors here. Can I list something for you? http://www.tinyurl.com/235dfr - BUG is Bunn User's Group (espresso)

emily
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Posted Thu Jun 14, 2007, 7:53pm Subject: Re: Cafe Culture Downunder by George Sabados

Ha ha funny funny tex! Yeah Wushoes - the Crema article - also touched on the same subject in the June/July Barista Mag that should be out ASAP!! Em

Macinazione
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Joined: 14 Jun 2007
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Posted Thu Jun 14, 2007, 8:15pm Subject: Re: Cafe Culture Downunder by George Sabados

Thanks for the history of the Australian/NZ beginnings of the coffee culture in this region. This explains the strong values placed on good coffee and importance for cafe and convenience store owners in their food offer. Wild Bean (BP Fuel) is leading the convenience store coffee offer and is ahead of the European initiatives.

MarshallF
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Posted Thu Jun 14, 2007, 9:22pm Subject: Re: Cafe Culture Downunder by George Sabados

Interesting article, especially (to me) on the comparison of Italian immigration groups and their cofffee knowledge. But, George clearly missed one very sad fact while he slammed U.S. coffee "franchises." While the very best shops tend to be independents, on the whole, the large chain stores are better than independents. Marshall

Philosopher
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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2007, 2:55am
Subject: Re: Cafe Culture Downunder by George Sabados

emily Said:

Australians are so exposed to espresso that in many cases they cannot distinguish good from awful from excellent.

THe other problem with the saturation/overexposure as Luca said is that many coffee producers in Australia are either lazy or naieve with their product - which means if we dont get our butts into gear as a whole, we'll fall behind the rest of the world in the development and evolution of a product which IMHO we have been ahead in for many years. ( So i agree with George here - we started off out front, but we're falling behind in some areas rapidly).

.... but on the whole, our industry here (the non specialty end) is a shocker. I've worked with a number of roasters in the last few years on a consultative basis who dont even bother cupping their coffees - they buy off a list quoting grading and origin as the only information they need to guarantee a good product. They keep no roast records, times or temperatures, they dont cup their finished product. They roast, pack and sell.. and unfortunately, some Australians are still consuming it.

Posted June 14, 2007 link

I found this interesting article on the AASCA website which I presume is a marketing report on the status of coffee consumption in Australia.

http://www.aasca.com/NewUploadFiles/2006AustCoffeeFacts.pdf

It seems to indicate that Instant coffee is still the predominant form of coffee drunk in the domestic setting followed up by Supermarket Brick pre-ground a distant second. Specialty coffee remains a very small segment of the market.

They concluded that although Cafe culture is embedded in Australian life, coffee quality and by inference espresso was not.

In other words, many establishments in this country are quite happy to invest in a nice shiny machine to sit on their benchtop but few owners know how to take advantage of it and even fewer customer are discerning enough to know the difference.

Luca
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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2007, 3:29am Subject: Re: Cafe Culture Downunder by George Sabados

Hi All, I was lucky enough to get some coffee from up north to have a go with today, via a friend who returned from Seattle a few weeks ago. To give y'all an indication of the sorts of roast levels that we'd see for Melbourne epresso blends, Vivace Vita and Ecco Northern Italian wouldn't be out of place, but Victrola Streamline is probably lighter than anything that we would be used to. Cheers, Luca

General ramblings about coffee: http://www.pourquality.blogspot.com/ Reviews of Australian coffee: http://www.coffeereviewaustralia.com/

wushoes
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Posted Fri Jun 15, 2007, 3:44am Subject: Re: Cafe Culture Downunder by George Sabados

:O Can I get you to pull me a shot or two? :D

Luca
Senior Member

Posted Fri Jun 15, 2007, 4:13am Subject: Re: Cafe Culture Downunder by George Sabados

wushoes Said: :O Can I get you to pull me a shot or two? :D Posted June 15, 2007 link Come in tomorrow. Unfortunately the brown paper bags, the passage of three weeks and jetlag have not been kind to the Ecco and Victrola stuff. The Ecco coffee is a bit past it, but, nonetheless quite sweet. I bet it's brilliant when fresh. The Vivace Vita was packaged in a valve bag and was pulling wonderful shots today (changed the brew temperature on the FB-80 as famously required ;P), but I think it's all gone. Not to worry, though - it tasted similar to Dave's WBC blend from last year, which explains why it travelled so well, so I might have a go at roasting a knock-off ... errr .... tribute blend tomorrow ;P Cheers, Luca

General ramblings about coffee: http://www.pourquality.blogspot.com/ Reviews of Australian coffee: http://www.coffeereviewaustralia.com/

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