MarkPrince Moderator Joined: 19 Dec 2001 Posts: 5,462 Location: Vancouver, BC Expertise: Professional
Espresso: KvdW Speedster Grinder: Compak K10 WBC Vac Pot: A bit too many Drip: Clive Coffee Drip Stand Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Sat Feb 4, 2006, 2:17am Subject: Re: Robusta's Rehab, The Cafe Stage
pstam Said:
I know Caffe Molinari had a new blend for 100% arabica beans, and we just made a new order from them. As our experience and knowledge, we do not even want to try it. The best is still ORO blend, for all espresso and espresso based coffee drinks. ....
And I'll still say to you Peter, out of all the Italian blended coffees I've tried in the last five years, Oro was the absolute worst I've tried. IMO, it was completely unpalatable, on par with the dregs produced by instants and complete robusta blends.
I've also had varieties of Caffe Molinari, and IMO, it is much better than Oro, but as far as all Italian produced blends, about middle of the road.
pstam Senior Member Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,305 Location: Beijing Expertise: Professional
Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000 Grinder: MAZZER Vac Pot: YES Drip: YES Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Sat Feb 4, 2006, 3:45am Subject: Re: Robusta's Rehab, The Cafe Stage
MarkPrince Said:
And I'll still say to you Peter, out of all the Italian blended coffees I've tried in the last five years, Oro was the absolute worst I've tried. IMO, it was completely unpalatable, on par with the dregs produced by instants and complete robusta blends.
I've also had varieties of Caffe Molinari, and IMO, it is much better than Oro, but as far as all Italian produced blends, about middle of the road.
It is reasonable for you not familiar to the blends of Caffe Molinari, so I would point it out that ORO and 5 STAR are both 80% arabica and 20% robusta, while for others, ESPRESSO and CLASSICO blends have more robusta coffee inside. Those are four traditional blends, by Caffe Molinari.
According to the colour of the packages, as recognized by all Italian roasters, one can see that it can be a top one among all those blends. ORO means GOLD in Italian language.
Years ago, when we compare those all blends, we were a little worried about the too strong tastes, so we chose the top two, 5 STAR and ORO coffee blends. After years, and the Chinese market is growing and becomes knowledgable to the Italian espresso, we shall taste again the other two blends, to see if they can be better in some way. But before we try them, we cannot get any conclusion from such a supposed situation only. Anyway, we shall see.
I do not know why you have such a strange comments about ORO blend. I can only say that it is a pitty to hear it.
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://www.kaffa.cn/ ------------------- I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
pstam Senior Member Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,305 Location: Beijing Expertise: Professional
Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000 Grinder: MAZZER Vac Pot: YES Drip: YES Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Sat Feb 4, 2006, 4:00am Subject: Re: Robusta's Rehab, The Cafe Stage
What is the best espresso blend in Italy? It is a very typical, or hard question to talk about.
During our training for our baristas, there are always someone asking such a question. But, what I can do is asking them another question so that they can understand why this question can be almost no answer at all.
My question does work only for Chinese people. For other people, I have to find another one. Let me try, but it may not be so successful at the beginning. Let me see ...
Who can make the best Frech bread, in France? Not a nation, not all people from some area, but a single person, or a single restaurant.
What I mean here is that such a thing so popular that you can find good one and bad one, and also normal one. But you never find a specific one which can be better than anyone else for all the people, whether in or out of that area.
Is it successful? I am not sure. But I hope that someone can see my points.
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://www.kaffa.cn/ ------------------- I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
First, I want to be clear about which ORO brand you're talking about here. I was always under the impression that you used Miscela D'Oro coffee. This is the coffee I refer to as being some of the worst blends I've ever tasted coming out of Italy.
For Caffe Molinari, the only samples I've ever tried were their Classico and Espresso Blend. I did not know they also had a line called Oro.
The Classico and Espresso blends were okay when fresh (both my samples were claimed less than a week old), actually fairly good - what I'd call a middle of the road espresso blend.
If you've been talking about Molinari's Oro blend, then my apologies for the comments. I have not tasted it, and would be interested in trying a sample that is within 10 days off the roast. Anything has to be better than Miscela D'oro.
For brewing coffee, one with arabica is recognized as good, and the one with robusta is not so good, same for liberica, which is not commonly used after people starting to promote the specialty coffee for its lower quality, as I was told.
Even for the brewing coffee, like in Germany, they blend the arabica and robusta (many from Uganda) for stronger taste.
MarkPrince Said:
Some other coffea species names I remember off the top of my head:
pstam Senior Member Joined: 27 Jan 2004 Posts: 2,305 Location: Beijing Expertise: Professional
Espresso: ECM, SAN MARCO, EURO 2000 Grinder: MAZZER Vac Pot: YES Drip: YES Roaster: YES, HOME STYLE
Posted Sat Feb 4, 2006, 4:36am Subject: Re: Robusta's Rehab, The Cafe Stage
MarkPrince Said:
First, I want to be clear about which ORO brand you're talking about here. I was always under the impression that you used Miscela D'Oro coffee. This is the coffee I refer to as being some of the worst blends I've ever tasted coming out of Italy.
Posted Mon Feb 6, 2006, 8:58am Subject: Re: Robusta's Rehab, The Cafe Stage
Great article, with balanced coverage of the arabica/robusta question. Have definitely had bad personal experiences with robusta and the branded blends that use it, but this has inspired me to try again with some of the softer robustas in my own blending experiments. I've often thought there had to be a good use for some of the qualities of robusta, especially after enjoying memorable espressos at some Italian owned fine (5 star) restaurants where they use a custom house blend of beans. My attempts to replicate were always dismal - and those results led me to believe that all robusta was simply evil. This re-opened my mind to the possibilities, and off I go to look for some kinder gentler robustas that will work and play well with their arabica friends!
As always - a big thank you to CG for yet another well-written and informative article, and kudos to the author, Richard Reynolds. You guys rock my world :)
counting Senior Member Joined: 8 May 2005 Posts: 823 Location: Baltimore, MD
Posted Wed Feb 8, 2006, 3:46am Subject: Re: Robusta's Rehab, The Cafe Stage
Alves also argues that a café owner who uses a robusta blend is acting against his or her own self-interest. When one drinks an all-arabica espresso, he says, "Your body will ask you for more in a couple of hours," while an espresso containing robusta will satisfy the customer for the rest of the day.
Since the espresso made of the blend with robusta beans may make clients satisfied bor the whole day, and therefore they won't need and order for another one in that day. So, the owners of the coffee shops will not like it. While for espresso made of 100% arabica blends can only satisfy the clients for few hours, they will soon need another and another shot. It is good for their business.
But, I cannot believe it as a reasonable theory for business. It can only be a thought, never practical meaning, I suppose.
Peter in Beijing ------------------- http://www.kaffa.cn/ ------------------- I am looking for the way and the place to extend our trainning courses.
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