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All the "Tips" of the Puzzle, Part Two by Aaron De Lazzer
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Notaddicted
Senior Member
Notaddicted
Joined: 2 Jul 2003
Posts: 206
Location: Vancouver
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: Brasilia
Grinder: Faema Commercial beast
Vac Pot: bodum santos
Drip: braun old thing
Posted Tue Jul 15, 2003, 12:24am
Subject: did you try this
 

the question needs to be asked..  did anyone put a lamarzocco head onto another machine, (preferably one that didn't microfoam well)  and if so what were the results?

I'm just thinking about making sure that it is hole size and not any other factor ie. hole angle, shape of tip, spacing of holes.. etc..
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orwa
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Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Dhahran (Eastern Province), Saudi Arabia
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Professional
Grinder: Modified KitchenAid ProLine
Posted Thu Apr 3, 2008, 11:14am
Subject: Usage of the 4-hole La Cimbali stainless steel tip
 

Hello,

I know it's an old article but I only read it today, and I was very interested. I'm mainly interested in Mr Aaron's praise of the La Cimbali 4-hole stainless steel tip, which looks to have 3 holes at a wide perimeter and a very wide dispersion angle, with one hole in the center. I am mainly interested in knowing how you use that tip in the first stage of creating the perfect foam, that is, the stage of injecting air. Do you inject air by letting one of the three holes float on the surface of the milk, and thus creating an indentation in the surface and a stream of large bubbles that are instantly sucked and destroyed by the whirlpools created by the other sunken two (three) holes, or do you simply keep the wand in a vertical position creating some sort of perpendicular waves in the milk?

I say, a drawing is worth a hundred words, and because of this I have drawn something for you to make telling me somehow easier (easier than "hey look, it's like this", unless you would like to come and visit in Saudi Arabia :D).

The answer could be, one, two, or neither :).

Thanks again for the helpful writing, and thanks in advance for your time.

orwa: La Cimbali 4-hole Stainless Tip.gif
(Click for larger image)
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roastaroma
Senior Member
roastaroma
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 438
Location: San Francisco, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: PV Lusso, Bacchi
Grinder: Rocky Doserless
Roaster: Blue Bottle Coffee
Posted Thu Apr 3, 2008, 11:57am
Subject: Re: Usage of the 4-hole La Cimbali stainless steel tip
 

Salaam, Orwa,

For multi-hole tips, your drawing #2 is the right one. Instead of a whirlpool, you're trying to create a vortex ring (or toroidal wave). This is another way to describe the effect:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vortex_ring

So, you could start with the tip right at the surface, and then lower it a little bit -- keeping the wand vertical & dead-center in the pitcher. The steam would drive the milk in a torus-shape from the outer edge, down to the bottom, back to the center of the pitcher & up again. Neat, eh?

Ciao,
Wayne

 
"Non la macchina, la mano."
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orwa
Senior Member


Joined: 26 Feb 2008
Posts: 13
Location: Dhahran (Eastern Province), Saudi Arabia
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Pavoni Professional
Grinder: Modified KitchenAid ProLine
Posted Fri Apr 4, 2008, 3:12am
Subject: Re: Usage of the 4-hole La Cimbali stainless steel tip
 

Hey salam Wayne,

The theory is neat, indeed, and thank you for posting the link. I once asked a nice guy in one of the forums about how to get the best out of the La Pavoni Professional steaming tip, and I remember him saying "vortex", I looked it up at the time however and I thought that it was just another word for a whirlpool, now I know that it means something different in form (in the dynamics), though similar in the result :P.

So, I gave the theory another shot today, and it again proved to be inable neither to create the vortex nor to provide a foam that would qualify as "latte-art-quality" on my machine (1.6L single boiler, direct lever). The resultant foam is not smooth (contains some very small but visible bubbles) and most importantly, separates quickly (forms a cap) using the food colour pouring test (a great test by the way). However, this may be due to me having to use very small pitchers on the Pavoni, or otherwise I would not be able to meet the dead-centering requirement and a usual slow whirlpool will happen rather than a violent vortex (the steam wand is so close to the boiler that it would prevent centering it in almost any container), so that there is no enough distance to the edge of the pitcher as to allow the toroidal wave magic to happen. When I use the other position however (in #2), I am able to achieve such a motion but now with the indentation point at the side being the center of the incomplete vortex (half-torus vortex). Using this position I am able to obtain a better foam, though still not ideal, it passes the food colouring separation test but fails to maintain a beautiful shine on the surface, that is, the foam on the surface soon collapses forming large bubbles and an another ugly drink comes to existence :D.

Anyway, thank you again for your comment, that was very helpful.
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roastaroma
Senior Member
roastaroma
Joined: 21 Nov 2007
Posts: 438
Location: San Francisco, CA
Expertise: I love coffee

Espresso: PV Lusso, Bacchi
Grinder: Rocky Doserless
Roaster: Blue Bottle Coffee
Posted Fri Apr 4, 2008, 9:08am
Subject: Re: Usage of the 4-hole La Cimbali stainless steel tip
 

Ciao Orwa,

Hmm, I heard about the clearance problem of the Pavoni steam wand, and you can what happens in the photos from Mark Prince's review:

"Operation & Maintenance"

But even with that pitcher, Mark seemed satisfied with the microfoam -- so maybe even with the vortex off-center, you can get good results. It might just be a matter of finding the sweet spot (how deep in the milk). I've heard people say these multi-hole tips make the job effortless, while others complain about how difficult they are! For me it's a struggle using a 1-hole tip, and only practice seems to help.

Buona Fortuna,
Wayne

 
"Non la macchina, la mano."
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DanteP
Senior Member


Joined: 21 Sep 2007
Posts: 4
Location: Philippines
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: La Cimbali M30, Quickmill...
Grinder: Macap M4
Vac Pot: Yama 5 cup, Kona 3 cup
Drip: OCS-12
Roaster: Sonofresco, Hot Top, iRoast2
Posted Wed Aug 26, 2009, 12:22am
Subject: Re: All the "Tips" of the Puzzle, Part Two by Aaron De Lazzer
 

Great article, and just the one I am looking for! I have an M30 Classic with a tip that steams like a locomotive. Can anyone tell me where I can order the 4 hole Cimbali tip that Aaron wrote of as an upgrade? Many thanks for any help/leads!
Dante from Manila
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