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All the "Tips" of the Puzzle, Part Two by Aaron De Lazzer
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jester
Moderator


Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 33
Location: Vancouver
Expertise: Professional

Posted Fri Dec 28, 2001, 1:00am
Subject: All the "Tips" of the Puzzle, Part Two by Aaron De Lazzer
 

All the "Tips" of the Puzzle, Part Two
by Aaron De Lazzer

In part two this week, Aaron looks at why some tips work better than others, and how big a factor the machine can be, as well as the tips themselves.
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Bogiesan
Senior Member


Joined: 1 Jan 2002
Posts: 43
Location: boise Idaho, usa
Expertise: I live coffee

Espresso: Salvatore Famosa c.2000
Grinder: Rancilio M40
Posted Tue Jan 1, 2002, 2:29pm
Subject: Still more to it
 

Great job and great information. I came to the same
fundamental conclusions after months of screwing around with
my Salvatore. Steam  pressure up the wazoo, flash heated
milk, absolutely no freakin' foam. Then I started drilling holes in
brass pipe caps.
My personal research included the physics and chemistry of
foams, especially in how the proteins in milk become the
surfactants that make it all possible. An article I wrote on the
subject for Whole Latte Love hasn't made it to their Web site
yet. If and when it does, I hope you'll drop by and compare my
findings.

Does this qualify as an advertisement, Mark?

david
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MarkPrince
Moderator
MarkPrince
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 5,513
Location: Vancouver, BC
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: KvdW Speedster
Grinder: Compak K10 WBC
Vac Pot: A bit too many
Drip: Clive Coffee Drip Stand
Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Fri Jan 4, 2002, 6:42pm
Subject: Re: Still more to it
 

Yeah, damnit, cut it out!! :-) :-)

Naw, and I look forward to seeing the article at WLL. Once I add the two new columns to this site though (ie, Newbie Progression column for any newbie to talk about their progression into the world of quality coffee, and "Sounding Board", where anyone can submit a story), I hope you'll volunteer a few articles over here :)
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dewardh
Senior Member


Joined: 8 Jan 2002
Posts: 2
Location: Berkeley
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Carimali Uno,  Pavoni
Grinder: Mazzer Jolly
Vac Pot: G.E.
Roaster: Rosto (modified), HIP
Posted Thu Jan 10, 2002, 10:17am
Subject: details . . .
 

Well . . . I showed my wife the "steam tips" article, and now I've got another project.  Thanks . . . <g>

So . . . the tip on our Carimali Uno (it's stainless, btw) is threaded M10x1.0 (not a metric "standard" . . . M10 pitch is usually either 1.25 or 1.5), and the four jets are drilled .060 inch (sorry, I don't have a metric wire gauge set).  

What are the thread size and pitch on the tips in your collection (particularly what seems to be becoming "standard"), what are the jet sizes, and perhaps most important, what parts distributors can you suggest who cater to this sort of fanaticism ? ? ? <g>  We'd like to try jets at perhaps .055 or .050 (or smaller . . . drilling them out is not a problem), and it will hopefully be easier to find a "stock" tip (even if it needs some modification) than to make one up "from scratch".

TIA, dewardh
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jester
Moderator


Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 33
Location: Vancouver
Expertise: Professional

Posted Thu Jan 10, 2002, 6:14pm
Subject: Re: details . . .
 

Hmmm,
Your ability to accurately measure thread pitch and hole
diameter is waaay beyond me.  I don't have the proper tools
for that.  
My first suggestion would be to return to the shop you bought
your machine from.  See if they have some alternative steam
tips with the appropriate thread.  I have to admit that the
Caramali brand is one I'm not familiar with.  If you strike out
there, don't lose hope.  Different manufacturers often use
similar parts.  For instance, the newest Conti steam wand and
tip is the same as that found on some Rancilio machines
(Tecnica?...I think was the model).  More importantly the tip
from this style of steam wand fits a Livia quite nicely as the
Coffeekid and I found out last week.  
The smaller the holes the better.  You're looking for a tip with
holes that are 5/64" or smaller in diameter.
Where do you live?  Often there is a espresso machine
distributor who owns the show in a given town.  Not only do
they stock parts for the machine they sell but often some
common parts for other brands since they often service any
and all espresso machines.
Finally, you could start custom turning some tips and sell them.  
Have people send you their wand, measure up the thread
pattern, drill out 4, 5/64" holes et voila!

Good luck,

Aaron

P.S. Share with the group what you find.  Perhaps we can
start building up a data base of tips that work well for
steaming and which machines they work on.
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MarkPrince
Moderator
MarkPrince
Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 5,513
Location: Vancouver, BC
Expertise: Professional

Espresso: KvdW Speedster
Grinder: Compak K10 WBC
Vac Pot: A bit too many
Drip: Clive Coffee Drip Stand
Roaster: Hario Glass Retro Roaster
Posted Thu Jan 10, 2002, 8:12pm
Subject: Re: details . . .
 

Aaron, I went to Home Hardware and got 5 (count em, 5) brass caps that fit the Livia at my place. I also bought an assortment of drill bits for the dremel - 1/32nd, 1/48th, 1/64th inch sizes, and I already have some 1/16ths and 1/24ths around.

The holes in the Livia steam tip are what looks like about 1/12th an inch.

I'm ready to drill, baybee. just waiting to see what recommendations I can get - ie, what angle, how many, top (bottom) of the cap, 45 degree angle, side of cap, straight into the cap (ie, perpendicular to the cap), or angle it left or right, what do you think would work best?

Mark
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dewardh
Senior Member


Joined: 8 Jan 2002
Posts: 2
Location: Berkeley
Expertise: I like coffee

Espresso: Carimali Uno,  Pavoni
Grinder: Mazzer Jolly
Vac Pot: G.E.
Roaster: Rosto (modified), HIP
Posted Thu Jan 10, 2002, 11:21pm
Subject: Re: details . . .
 

> measure thread pitch and hole diameter

Nothing special there . . . a metric thread pitch gauge can be had for under $5, nominal thread "size" is simply the OD of the male thread, and the easiest way to gauge hole size is with a set of number sized drills (which you'll need if you want to play with jet size anyway).  #50 through #60 are all you'd need . . . they step about .003 per size from .070 to .040.

> the Carmali brand is one I'm not familiar with.  

Much more common in Europe and Asia, it seems . . . they were/are perhaps too expensive for the US market.  The Uno is a solid (about 80 lbs) commercial machine, built like a tank (albeit a pretty one <g>).  But there are only a few West Coast dealers . . . (got ours through a brother-in-law in the trade in Portland) so the chance of a variety pack of steam tips is small to nill.  Which is why I asked about possible interchangability with other machines.  I had hoped that you might already know sizes and such.  But I will call around . . .

> You're looking for a tip with holes that are 5/64" or smaller in diameter.

5/64 (.078) seems *way* big, since what I've got is .060 and that seems a bit oversize . . .

> you could start custom turning some tips

That's what I'd kinda hoped to avoid . . . <g> . . . it'll be easy enough in brass (despite the pesky inside thread) but I'll end up wanting to do one in stainless, and there goes another day in the life . . . come to think of it, it might be easier to Silver solder the holes in an existing tip and then drill them smaller . . . I'll keep you posted . . .

dewardh
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jester
Moderator


Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 33
Location: Vancouver
Expertise: Professional

Posted Fri Jan 11, 2002, 7:03pm
Subject: Re: details . . .
 

I'd go with the 1/64" drill bit, and try either 4 holes at 45
degrees or 3 holes at 45 degrees and one straight out the tip.

Aaron
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jester
Moderator


Joined: 19 Dec 2001
Posts: 33
Location: Vancouver
Expertise: Professional

Posted Fri Jan 11, 2002, 7:14pm
Subject: Re: details . . .
 

Hmmm, I know that the 5/64" drill bit just fits into a couple of
the tips I've got that work well, but that a couple of the tips
(Cimbali and newest Conti tips) are indeed even smaller than
the 5/64" drill bit.  The 5/64" was the smallest thing I had to
use for the measurement.  As mentioned before, smaller is
better.  Even more so for small home machines.



Please do.

Aaron
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Dinkerin
Senior Member


Joined: 4 Mar 2003
Posts: 1
Location: Lacey
Expertise: Advanced

Posted Tue Mar 4, 2003, 11:15am
Subject: Any important point
 

Those who come across this article should be aware of the pricing of stainless steel componants. Sure, most people who would be considering purchasing, or already own, an espresso machine with these kinds of variables and adjustability are most likely not going to be concerned with cost of components, but here it is. The La Marzocco steam tips retail: $10.40 each. Simonelli: $19.60. Not cheap. And that's just for the tip...
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