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A reluctant admission, I don't hate Starbucks by Lou Pescarmona
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TomP10
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TomP10
Joined: 31 Dec 2005
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Posted Wed May 3, 2006, 2:08am
Subject: Re: A reluctant admission, I don't hate Starbucks by Lou Pescarmona
 

namewithheldforsafety Said:

I have been roasting beans for Starbucks for 9 years so I think I have a little more knowledge on this issues than ANYONE else in this whole ridiculous webpage.  My expertise in the industry goes back 30 years, and I am more than a little irritated at what I've read here.

Posted May 2, 2006 link

No way of knowing what you are saying is true, but for argument's sake... I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.... I am happy you like working for S*bucks... my brother-in-law worked for Folgers for years.  Let's see if what you say makes sense.


namewithheldforsafety Said:

This is a big bunch of bitter grapes and the lot of you wouldn't know a fine roast if it jumped up and bit you on the ass.  There is no company around that puts this much TLC into producing the perfect roast for each bean.  This isn't even debatable.

Posted May 2, 2006 link

Off to a bad start.  You can't be serious.  Are you comparing S*bucks to Folgers? If so, you may be correct.  If are comparing S*bucks to roasters like Intelly, Counter Culture, Terroir, CoffeeEmergency, etc. you are nuts.  N-U-T-S.  Have you tasted your competition?  


namewithheldforsafety Said:

I would invite any one of you to go visit one of our roasting plants (a little difficult, but not impossible) and see how roasting should be done.  And if you call our House Blend burnt, you obviously don't know coffee from pepsi.

Posted May 2, 2006 link

Clearly you are a S*bucks shill, when was your coffee roasted?  Where is the roast date?  "Best consumed before xxx" is totally bogus.

Look, S*bucks deserves its due... it is a big step up from 7-11 coffee... and they deserve credit for that.  But don't try to claim that it is the peak of the mountain.  Or, don't you think that a big part of "how roasting should be done" involves freshness?  


- Tom

 
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Three Musketeers?? Nah... Four M's.
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Yirga
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Joined: 3 Feb 2006
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Location: Big Bend
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Posted Wed May 3, 2006, 4:14am
Subject: Re: A reluctant admission, I don't hate Starbucks by Lou Pescarmona
 

Those Out There,

Iíve heard a few that appear lame, but will someone explain to me reasons why Makebucks continues to produce coffee roasted to a profile that so very many CoffeeGeeks consider, over-roasted, burnt, burned, charred, cremated, etc.?  What goes with this?  Can it be they roast for the uninitiated only?  If itís true that most coffee drinkers (95%) donít really like the taste of coffee and have to load it with sugar, milk, syrups, etc. (and would never even think of drinking it black) to be able to choke it down then where does this idea come from that Makebucks is a coffee shop?  Something ainít right here!  Seems to me they are a disguised-coffee shop or a caffeine drink shop or a cover-up coffee shop.  Maybe a more fitting logo would be a green mermaid with a scowl on her face and her tongue sticking out down the side of her mouth in a yuk gesture!

Has Makebucks really found the secret to over roasting the cheapest coffee in the world so that it is the easiest to doctor-up and not taste like coffee in the least bit and thus satisfy the tastes of millions of coffee haters and simultaneously produce a bottom line profit that is awesome while hyping everything about coffee to the contrary?  

Born at night but not last night!
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Jasonian
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Jasonian
Joined: 8 Aug 2005
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Location: Lubbock, TX
Expertise: Professional

Posted Wed May 3, 2006, 1:38pm
Subject: Re: A reluctant admission, I don't hate Starbucks by Lou Pescarmona
 

Yirga Said:

Those Out There,

Iíve heard a few that appear lame, but will someone explain to me reasons why Makebucks continues to produce coffee roasted to a profile that so very many CoffeeGeeks consider, over-roasted, burnt, burned, charred, cremated, etc.?  What goes with this?  Can it be they roast for the uninitiated only?  If itís true that most coffee drinkers (95%) donít really like the taste of coffee and have to load it with sugar, milk, syrups, etc. (and would never even think of drinking it black) to be able to choke it down then where does this idea come from that Makebucks is a coffee shop?  Something ainít right here!  Seems to me they are a disguised-coffee shop or a caffeine drink shop or a cover-up coffee shop.  Maybe a more fitting logo would be a green mermaid with a scowl on her face and her tongue sticking out down the side of her mouth in a yuk gesture!

Has Makebucks really found the secret to over roasting the cheapest coffee in the world so that it is the easiest to doctor-up and not taste like coffee in the least bit and thus satisfy the tastes of millions of coffee haters and simultaneously produce a bottom line profit that is awesome while hyping everything about coffee to the contrary?  

Born at night but not last night!

Posted May 3, 2006 link

I think there are a couple of factors to it.

  1.  It's quite difficult to acquire the amount of coffee require by such a huge company in the top tier of quality.  Sure, it's still "Specialty Grade".. but that's still a huge window.  In such situations, sometimes it's better to taste a roast profile rather than the origin.

  2.  The flavor of a very dark roast helps to mask the flavor of staleness in the bean.  On such a huge scale, it's practically impossible to have fresh(by our standards) coffee shipped to every location in a timely and cost-effective manner.  The roast is sort of a crutch for this inconvenience.

 
www.AJCoffeeCo.com - www.espressotrainer.com - www.TX-Coffee.com
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whfite
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whfite
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Location: USA
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Posted Mon May 22, 2006, 11:20am
Subject: Re: A reluctant admission, I don't hate Starbucks by Lou Pescarmona
 

Thanks for an interesting range of viewpoints.  Like many others here, I came to good coffee via Starbucks, then Au Bon Pain, and then smaller, more committed shops.  My espresso skills still aren't anywhere near where they ought to be but I can now make brewed that, to my palate, compares quite favorably with what I can find over the counter in places that take their brewing seriously.  The journey has been entertaining, educational, and fun.  Thank you, Star*ucks, for that.

I guess the only point I would make here is that we need to remind ourselves that none of us was born knowing anything at all about coffee, and none of us was introduced to it at mama's breast.  We all have a learning curve (mine is still so, so steep....) and when we forget that and become pompous and pretentious and dismissive we only fool ourselves.

I still go to Star*ucks on miserably hot Florida afternoons when my whole body is scorched and I got no lunch (as today).  At times like those, a huge, icy, sweet, milky, chocolaty cup of....stuff....tastes pretty damned good on my way to the university to teach my evening classes.

But it IS over-roasted.
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Fitzcarraldo
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Posted Sat Aug 19, 2006, 9:02am
Subject: Years later
 

Long after my bitter post on this thread, I would like to apologize for my tone.  I regret my choice of words and my attitude in general.  I am tired of logging on to my profile and seeing this thread quoted there.  It makes me look like I am always as big of a jackass as I was when I first posted here.
I have a lot to say on the subject of Starbucks, but so do many (if not most) coffee lovers.
My fiancť used to drink Starbucks coffee frequently; I never complained or grumbled about it.  Instead, I made coffee for her the way I make it, and now she doesn't like the taste of Starbucks any more.  Perhaps a Taoist approach is more effective... it is definitely less obnoxious.
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rasqual
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Posted Sun Oct 15, 2006, 2:40pm
Subject: Re: A reluctant admission, I don't hate Starbucks by Lou Pescarmona
 

Interesting thread.

One argument that only partly makes sense is "if it wasn't for Starbucks . . ."

Well, yeah. But then it would have been someone else. It's not as if the "possibility space" for coffee would have never led to where we are today, had Starbucks not been the one.

This doesn't mean gratitude isn't due those who actually stood in that place in possibility space at the right time. But neither does gratitude for such historical midwifery in the coffee market disqualify contemporary, justified criticisms of Starbucks' roasts or brewing, or of their corporate behavior.

The same argument was doubtless made by English loyalists in the days leading up to the U.S. Revolution -- "why if it hadn't been for England, ye wouldn't even be here!" -- the implicit "ergo" apparently being that Jefferson's litany of complaints in the Declaration were just boorish ingratitude and sour grapes.

My two cents.
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bobinla
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Joined: 2 Aug 2007
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Location: LA
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Posted Thu Aug 2, 2007, 8:48pm
Subject: Re: A reluctant admission, I don't hate Starbucks by Lou Pescarmona
 

Hi,

I am writing with the hopes of finding some support for dealing with what I think you will
find to be further evidence of Starbuck's being a company without a conscience, inspite of what they
might want you to believe when you read the brochure's they have available at their locations
which hail their 'social responsibility'.

I was in a Starbuck's on Monday working on my laptop when a customers spilt coffe on me, the chair I was
sitting in, as well as my laptop.  The end result was having a laptop that no longer works.  In the process
of cleaning up the mess, I asked to get the identification from the person who caused the mess.  He refused
to show me his ID.  So I went to report the problem to the management at the store telling them it was essential
that I get a physical address of the person who did this so I could have some recourse to serve him papers
if I needed to resolve this in a civil court.

They proceded to take what they call 'an accident report' which should include the information I needed.
In the process of filling out these forms, the person who caused the accident decided that he would verbally
abuse me in a very loud voice in front of everyone in the store.  Not only was this humiliating, but shocking to me
that no one working at the Starbucks either lifted a finger or raised an eyebrow about what this man was doing.

At this point, I need to let you know the I am a homeless man who was using his laptop to try to find work,
something to eat, and have a roof over my head.  This has now been taken away from me, and Starbucks seems
to care less...  

After all this happened on Monday, I followed up to find out what Starbucks might be willing to do to help
remedy the problem.  The management at the store shiftedd the problem off to their corporate headquarters,
giving me their number to call.   I only found this out after waiting for a call from the management at the store
that wasn't returned, and I went back to the store the next day.  When I realized that nothing would be done from
the store, I called the number they provided me while I am at the Starbucks store being sure that I was at a central
enough location that other customers could clearly hear the conversation.  This involved making two calls to their corporate
offices, the first of which ended saying that they would do what ever they could to assist me to legally pursue this.
The second call ended when they said that the contact information for the other party was now internal private info
that they would not give me.   They also decided that my presense was 'interferring with their business and I would have to leave or they would call the police.'[   In my book this makes them astounding hypocrites...!   Can anybody with any sense of social responsibility say with a straight face that Starbuck's has a conscience when they choose to act this way?

So I am now left with no legal recourse to sue the other party, and I am without a working laptop to find work, food, or shelter.
I've been verbally and emotionally abused by both the person who caused the accident and Starbucks as well.
I am now looking for what ever resources are available to persue legal action in a civil suit.  Can you help???


Respectfully,
Bob House
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